Hako's Monthly eroge review: a disappointment.

Checkmate

Administrator
Uploader
Translator
Messages
213
Reaction score
314
Points
63
Credits
0
I'm Checkmate, one of the founders of Anime-Sharing. My Vietnamese isn't too good, so allow me to write this in English. You don't have to read this if you don't want to since it's a bit long.

First, I want to tell you a bit about myself. When I first come to Canada in 2007, I was bored. Out of boredom, my perverted friend sent me a few Hentai OVAs. Most of them sucks, generic, and crappy. However, among them was Mizuiro OVA - one of the hentai that I enjoyed the most. Visiting Youtube, I found out a lot of eroge OP, the first two I watched: Nursery Rhyme and Colorful Aquarium, the two OP that brought me to the new world, the eroge world. Since then, I discover, collect,countless TB of eroge. Anime-Sharing Project come along when I meet girlcelly in real life (2008), and several people that contribute substantial efforts to the Project.

Later I've met more people but most of them are trolls except Micchi and dovac. I haven't personally met Micchi yet even though I had a few chances (he's living about 2 hours of driving from my house), and dovac is in U.S (may be... one day). dovac runs yande.re - one of the popular generous scans site and Micchi runs Hau Omochikaeri, the blog that most of you who play eroge should know by now. Both of them influenced how Anime-Sharing turns into: a site that staff are not allowed to bash, troll, and disrespect any visitors and members. I devoted myself into making AS the best place as possible without any monetary gain in mind (hence, you don't see a lot of ads). with 12 bare metal servers, 20 virtualized server, AS probably has the biggest network caliber in the eroge fansite field.

Let me tell you this true story: When I come back to Vietnam in 2011 for summer vacation, I had someone to buy me a prepaid simcard (Vinaphone). That person only give me the simcard without any of the instructions or information leaflet and thus I didn't know how to check my balance or to top up my prepaid account at all. I called a few friends of mine (who is still in Vietnam) and turn out all of them use Mobifone instead of Vinaphone. Though, one of them tell me that I may want to ask on this forum ABC (name censored, but it's a big tech forum in Vietnam). I created a thread in Vietnamese "Làm sao để kiểm tra tiền trong tài khoảng Vinaphone". After half an hour or so, I checked and the first few replies I get is:

"Có thế mà cũng không biết"
"Gọi tổng đài vinaphone mà hỏi ấy"
"dễ vậy mà cũng không biết, bạn đừng xài dtdd nữa"
"Mua sim mới là xong"
...

So I decided to tell them I've just arrived in Vietnam and don't know anything about it, and the thread turn into discussion of which network is better "You should use another phone network etc etc... " but after a while, one of them finally helped me.

I can't help but wonder: Is that how Vietnamese treat each other? Is that how they operate a forum? Full of trolls? I shared this story on the Anime-Sharing IRC to Natsuki_Kono. He's a Vietnamese who recently left for U.S. He frequently on IRC (I don't meet a lot of Vietnamese on IRC... only 2 so far and the other works for Doki Fansub). He told me that it has been like that on almost every forum, including VNSharing. Wow... this is a shocked to me. Well, not like I'd care, since I don't even go on any Vietnamese forum. Turning the time back to 2012, when VNS decided to closed down some section, Natsuki Kono tell me about it, and express his opinion to have a forum for Vietnamese Eroge Player. I thought about it, and after some discussions and agreements, Hako was born. It's all thanks to Natsuki Kono, and I don't know if he's even have an account here after everything.

Now, I really don't want to see Hako to be another ... Vietnamese faggotry forum, and thus I put my faith in the Hako's leaders. I want to Hako to be the pioneers for the future of Vietnam eroge's fanbase. Greatness from small beginnings. You guys are the first generation of greatness, but that doesn't mean you can go around and look down to the new comers. Being the pioneers, you have great responsibilities, setting a strong foundation, or else it will crumble in no time. What I mean is that you should help everyone, new comers or experienced players. Be courtesy, be nice, be patient, be honest, don't be faggots, don't be a troll. And so when the new comers learn the culture from you, they will behave the same, and we will have a strong foundation to stand on. Also, stop with epenis. (ra vẻ ta đây nick đỏ, ta dây ngon hơn) It's a merit, a reward that everyone recognize you as a great helper, there's a lot more to be improved from there.

That brings me to the monthly review. I'm going to be honest that I'm really dissapointed with the month review. Well let's be straight here: You guys are translating from Micchi's blog, there's nothing wrong with it, but what's really wrong is that you guys are bashing the game without a clear understanding of it. Tell me, did you actually play it in Japanese to understand the writing style? How many eroge did you truly play that let you judge what's good and what's bad? Even English trans fan translation is bad enough let alone machine translation... Now if the answer is no to BOTH of it, then, IMO, you have no right to bash it.

Personally, I myself learn Japanese since 2010, but I haven't really gotten very far to it (may be 100 kanjis/combination, and some grammar here and there, I can read some but I can't speak/write), I've played well over 100 eroges and I don't even call myself an eroge player yet. Now let me give you a small example:

Sakura Sakura Festival

Oboku-sama: Crappy nukige. Let's throw it away. Pass.
Pandora: Chả biết chất lượng sơ muối kiểu gì nên mình cũng pass mặc dù cover có vẻ hấp dẫn.
To begin with Sakura Sakura is not a nukige. Further more, it's a good eroge. It has a very decent plot if you ever played it, the writing was good and the pace was well done. In fact, a lot of eroge god (those who play MOST if not all eroge) are looking forward to its fandisc. And yet, here we are... both of our commenter are bashing it without knowing what it is. In business term, we call this an "Error 1" which is a most serious error: calling something bad/reject something without having enough evidence to make such conclusion.

Moving forward, now, since I kind of understand that none of us actually know Japanese to be able to comment on eroge in a correct way, why don't we change it a bit. Why don't you guys comment on who do the art, who write the story, and what's the writing style/art style. Writing a bit about company, each company have different kind of game, sometimes they changed, but most of the time they have one style: for example: Lump of Sugar, their kind of game is always laid back, the story isn't serious, Lump of Sugar is a famous for having magic cope a really nonsense story, moe character, and ero ero ero to no end. Saga Planet? Hell, plot are much darker, story are much deeper. If you don't really know about them at all, then may be you should take time to learn. Hell I know most of them but I don't even dare to bash any and I don't think anyone here have that right.

With that said, may be you should consider thinking of what kind of eroge monthly write up would be. Not this nonsense crap. It's fine to do it between friends but on an official article (stickied too) in Hako? I would like to remind that every visitor read what you write, what you write can decide the future of Hako, and probably the entire Vietnam eroge fanbase. Consider limiting the use of English in official article as well.

Also, you guys should learn Japanese. Yeah sure, "I'm busy" is a good excuse but a really lame one. I'm busy too and probably everyone else, yet I'm still be able to do it, so there's no reason for you not able to, you just don't want to put effort to. A better excuse would be "I'm broke and I cannot afford for going to a Japanese class" but then, I don't think it's that expensive either. In short, you have to put your effort into something to make it happen. Aside knowing more than one language gives you an advantage in life. Trust me. I can speak English and French (yeah, I'm in Quebec) and I get good employment rate than most people because of that.

That's enough rants from me now, it's a bit longer than I'd like it to be anyhow.
 
Last edited:

superutuanga

Trap Cadet
Translator
Messages
236
Reaction score
510
Points
93
Credits
0
I understand your meaning. I admit some guys have the thought (example: I pro and you noob, I can bass you, blah blah...). First, i think we should remove that thought.
Most of member of Hako can write English, but they don't write because they don't enough confidence as me (đa phần trường ở việt nam toàn dạy chay nên đây là hệ quả tất yếu, đừng trách họ).
Sẵn mình cũng góp ý luôn là mấy leader người việt của forum sống hơi khép kín với mem. Từ hồi VL bên vns đã có biểu hiện chia team và bơ newbie, hình như sang bên đây vẫn thế :-s
 

raptoria

Harem Meister
Messages
2,751
Reaction score
325
Points
83
Credits
1
In Viet Nam - people have a tendency to Ignore some trivial matter - Actually It's trivial to themself so they think anybody else can easily handle it
They can spend time over time SLASHING about Smartphone - about Core i7 - about Game --> but if you ask them about it , you usually get "you cant do it ?? it easy man"
I know you feeling Checkmate - trust me . I seen worse :thodai:
And It's very hard to change the habit :botay:


I dont know much about Hako since I always roaming around trolling my Superior (admin , mod , S-M ) but whatever I meet newbie , I help them with all I have
AND I think verybody in Hako do the same - Personally I like Hana the best (if only he's A SHE ) and In my territory , It very very pleasant with Maou-sama --> they are the Kindest people I meet
I been in Eushully-FC , Alice-FC , Minato-FC and I never see stuff like "do it youself" , "it's easy" ... everyone answer any question for newbie
Maybe I should go out of VN-Discussion to meet more BUT I think Hako is on the right track


About the Eroge review --> I think it called Eroge Publishing List in English (I make up this name - feel free to correct me , Please ) , so that's why they post -name - pic- some VID - copy Description from somewhere - and finally add whatever S*** that come to they mind SO THAT people know what they pick to play
--> But you are right , it's nothing more helpful than Description + Date and Full of PASS

Everytime I see them , I just want to SHOUT




Oh, I'm one of the trolling Freak of this forum
 
Last edited:

Checkmate

Administrator
Uploader
Translator
Messages
213
Reaction score
314
Points
63
Credits
0
Fix: It is supposed to be preview sorry for the confusion.
 

raptoria

Harem Meister
Messages
2,751
Reaction score
325
Points
83
Credits
1
Fix: It is supposed to be preview sorry for the confusion.
Dont worry about it . It's still not a right way to call that topic
"Danh Sách Eroge" = "Eroge List" :lambam: my Dictionary say that :gianxao:
But whatever you want to call . It's just a topic anouncing the upcoming Eroge and NOT exactly previewing anything (I really really think there something wrong about the way I say "Previewing" but ... eh )
 

trung-t-rung

Trap Captain
Messages
814
Reaction score
116
Points
43
Credits
0
I agree with you, Checkmate. The eroge list comment maybe a bit troll-style, because most of the game haven't come out yet so I guess the reviewers don't know anything about them. They just check the summary, the art and decide it should be pick or not. Still the comment still need to add the humor part ( I don't trust any of those). I think they should stop the whole pick-pass thing and comment on the summary,art only. With the whole lot of eroge come out every month it's impossible to actually play all of them and there are few review VN in English community, especially those without eng patch so it's difficult to comment exactly how this VN is good or not(except vndb with tag to tell you). At school, my Literature teacher always tell me to write a good preview on something you need to write correct info, less personal comment. It's the same here. I mean, swearing and complain about a VN just because of its art or H even those it has good plot , come on you guys can do better than that. At least check on vndb about those game first and stop trolling, OK.
P/S: sorry about my crappy english.
 

Hako-chan

Staff member
Administrator
Super Members
Uploader
Translator
Messages
4,789
Reaction score
2,903
Points
113
Credits
116
@Checkmate: Well, you're right about the comment part, since the old guys doing monthly Eroge List preview have retired and the new ones don't do research much. Thus their comments recently are mostly "Pass" and etc...

However, even in former lists, those comments aren't non-existent. Much shameless and unthoughtful as it is, in the Internet Vietnameses tend to use "troll" sentences as some kinds of humor, and the others more or less accepted it. The examples are right in this month preview, when almost nobody care about those comments.

Putting that aside, it's not like Vietnameses can't take things seriously. When we do, we'll put all efforts in doing it. Once I read a post about recruiting staffs for Narcissu Side 2nd localization, and on a whim, I replied conanak99 to answer his joke that "If I do it, you'll do everything for me, right?" . And that's how the project came along until the end. This is just an example to show that we can be serious at times, not always trolling each other.

About the current problems of Hako, we're lacking of active members who can contribute, so every effort is welcomed. We don't have the luxury of picking the best posts. Yesterday I had a discussion with Itsuka no Zero about how he commented Oboku's style of language and found out it's just a misunderstanding.

Anyway your post is really helpful since the new team in charge of doing Monthly List can learn something from it. I myself can't do it since it's not my position to do so. Admittedly, I have never read a single one of those new released games since 2009. I can only read localized games at best...

Btw, sorry for not coming to IRC, everybody in the founding group just realized that it's not convenient to chat endlessly on IRC and decided to use Skype instead. I do hope that you can join us, though. Sometimes there are serious discussion like the one I mentioned earlier (it's not rly that serious, trust me (rofl)) , but most of the times we are a bunch of fanboys chit-chating overtime.

Sẵn mình cũng góp ý luôn là mấy leader người việt của forum sống hơi khép kín với mem. Từ hồi VL bên vns đã có biểu hiện chia team và bơ newbie, hình như sang bên đây vẫn thế :-s
À, việc này thì ko phải là staff muốn bơ newbie đâu, như bạn biết thì đâu phải ai cũng biết hết mọi thứ, vì vậy một số lúc bản thân tớ sẽ không trả lời được vài câu hỏi. Còn việc hỏi đáp và thảo luận chung chung thì số mem của forum có thể đáp ứng việc đó rồi.
 
Last edited:

Checkmate

Administrator
Uploader
Translator
Messages
213
Reaction score
314
Points
63
Credits
0
Sweet, so here we are.

Well, I know Hako is so small right now, thus, I don't think you should actually do big things yet. Greatness from small beginnings remember? I really like the articles about the history of eroge, cost of eroge and the sort. In fact, I didn't know those were available in English at all. May be you guys should think of something similar and write something original too (aka not a translation), once per month, or once per two months. They were really helpful for me and I've begin to plan to adopt some for AS.

Do we have a write up what is eroge yet? We need more facts, articles, and similar to counter the newspaper scumbag who are failed so bad in life and end up making up about news, trying so hard to fail even more. If we win the heart of the people, then we will win this war. Classification of eroge genre would be helpful too. Hell there's >o9k things to write about instead of bashing in Monthly List, don't you think?

Though, apart from the monthly list. I admit there are many good things in VL New too. For example: I like Hako-chan (you) and Hanakotoba short write up as well. Those are what we need more than the monthly list. Most of us know the monthly list and most of the new comer doesn't care about that, so it's just a waste of manpower.

Unfortunately, I never have a skype account, so I can't join you guys...
 

delacroix01

Eroge Addict
Messages
852
Reaction score
131
Points
43
Credits
0
Though, one of them tell me that I may want to ask on this forum ABC (name censored, but it's a big tech forum in Vietnam). I created a thread in Vietnamese "Làm sao để kiểm tra tiền trong tài khoảng Vinaphone". After half an hour or so, I checked and the first few replies I get is:

"Có thế mà cũng không biết"
"Gọi tổng đài vinaphone mà hỏi ấy"
"dễ vậy mà cũng không biết, bạn đừng xài dtdd nữa"
"Mua sim mới là xong"
...
This may be shocking for you, but when you starts a thread like that, Vietnamese people are most likely to assume you to be a clueless kid, not a Vietnamese returnee. You should have explained in full details in the first place if you were expecting them to help you, and that's what your friend should have told you to, which he didn't. He clearly made two grave mistakes. First, he didn't give you instructions on how to ask questions on Vietnamese forums. There's a few patterns of "forum subculture" in Vietnam, and strict observation should be made before posting anything to avoid turning yourself into a laughingstock or a target of trolls. You were more familiar with the Western Internet culture and had virtually no clue when it comes to its Vietnamese counterpart, so that couldn't be helped. Second, your friend seemed to have chosen the wrong place to recommend you. The replies you quoted sounds voz as heck. If I were your friend, I would recommend ddth over it.

That brings me to the monthly review. I'm going to be honest that I'm really dissapointed with the month review. Well let's be straight here: You guys are translating from Micchi's blog, there's nothing wrong with it, but what's really wrong is that you guys are bashing the game without a clear understanding of it. Tell me, did you actually play it in Japanese to understand the writing style? How many eroge did you truly play that let you judge what's good and what's bad? Even English trans fan translation is bad enough let alone machine translation... Now if the answer is no to BOTH of it, then, IMO, you have no right to bash it.

Personally, I myself learn Japanese since 2010, but I haven't really gotten very far to it (may be 100 kanjis/combination, and some grammar here and there, I can read some but I can't speak/write), I've played well over 100 eroges and I don't even call myself an eroge player yet.
IMHO it's not about how many VNs you have read, but it's about how DEEPLY you understand what you read. Due to limitation in Japanese language knowledge, very few people here can enjoy the stylistic elements in a LN or VN, and care only for the "plot" (or the "story"). Even non-Vietnamese are no different. I have seen enough eroge reviews on the Internet to tell that. Aside from a few people like Accany, very few would comment on aesthetic elements. Most of them would jump straight on evaluating the plot and character development, which is something on a grand scale and actually requires more careful examination to give a fair judgment.

Back to Hako's eroge lists, they have always been like that, mostly trolling and should never be taken seriously. You have never been to VNS or SA, so it's only natural that they made you disappointed. I myself would only look at the cover (and may be the opening because it actually tells more than a summary does). As for everything else, I already have getchu and official sites, so I don't need to read, and I'm sure the staff members of Hako do more or less the same.

Oh well, I haven't been posting this long in a while. That's all I have to say. Now I'm going back to do scanlation.
 
Last edited:
Top